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What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

September 1, 2009

Photo of Robin Jones

Robin Jones ( in Tonganoxie) says...

“I am not in favor of it. I think being able to buy six days a week is plenty.”

Photo of Gloria Brimhall

Gloria Brimhall ( in Tonganoxie) says...

“I think they should be able to sell on Sundays. I think if they’re sold any other day and sold in Basehor or Shawnee or any of the other places around, I don’t see why it shouldn’t be sold here. I don’t understand what they’re trying to prove by not selling it on Sundays in Tonganoxie. I think it should be sold on Sunday just as it is on any other day.”

Photo of Austin Baragary

Austin Baragary ( in Tonganoxie) says...

“Given my age, Sunday liquor sales won’t have a very direct impact on me. However, other towns and cities have allowed Sunday liquor sales with no problems, so I really don’t see a reason for Tonganoxie to not do so. Besides, if people really want liquor on Sunday, they can go to other towns to get it, so we might as well have that money support local businesspeople.”

Comments

Jason Bailey 4 years, 12 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

Moral relativism on display. "If other towns sell it, why not do it here?"

Nevada has legalized prostitution, using the age-old argument of "if others are doing it, why not us?" why not legalize that in Kansas and ultimately in Tongie?

The entire argument breaks down if you use "other towns" as your basis for the argument. Where do you draw the line? When you do so, it is as subjective of a line as saying sales should be banned on Sunday. There's no difference.

What we're "trying to prove", Gloria, by not selling on Sundays is that the citizens of Tongie are taking a stand against the moral degradation of society starting here in our little town.

It's amazing how people have lost the ability to logically debate. The points given by Gloria and Austin have absolutely no basis on which to stand. It's all relative to what's going on in other towns. No indication of right or wrong, just what other people are doing.

I wonder if Gloria ever told her kids the old saying, "If everyone was jumping off the bridge, would you do it?"

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straightup 4 years, 12 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

I feel that if you want to buy liquor on Sundays you should be able to. Here in our town.

Jason2007 wants a debate. Here goes! If the people in Tonganoxie has such high Morals then the sells of liquor on Sundays will not effect anything. The retail businesses will not make money. Because Tonganoxie's High morals will not be buying liquor on Sundays!!

But People like you Jason2007 wants to try to push your morals on others. You make your debate on the bases that if you sell liquor on Sunday it will bring in Prostitution!!

Tongananoxie gives away sex for free. Prostitution would never make a living here in this town.

You have to be 21 to buy liquor. That means that anyone who buys liquor are adults and can make their own decisions on whether or not they want to drink on Sundays.

What is the difference if you go to the bars and drink or go to the liquor stores and buy you liquor? The difference is Liquor store you go home. Bars you drink and DRIVE home!!

I say get out and Vote for the sell of Liquor on Sundays!!

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Jason Bailey 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

Straightup: If you're going to reply to my post, at least have the decency to read it in context. I did not debate Sunday sales on the basis (not "bases", BTW) that it will "bring in prostitution".

I'll reiterate my point: Gloria is using moral relativism to support her point of view that other towns do it, so why not Tongie. I said, where do you draw the line? Why not legalize prostitution since Nevada has done so and are making money hand over fist. The coup de grace (that's french, BTW) in my agrument was, if you think my point of legalizing prostitution in Tongie because Nevada has done so is extreme, what gives you the right to draw that line of extremism? It's as subjective as me saying that Sunday liquor sales should be prohibited.

Moral relativism, my friend.

I have no doubt the vote will pass and Sunday sales will be allowed. The depravity of society is such that debauchery always wins. In that, I have little doubt.

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SWM23 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

jason2007 I think we can logically debate without getting snotty and making snide remarks about misspellings and the "coup de grace" remark. I know I can. Attempting to appear superior by making others feel self-conscious and small about their remarks does not make you appear more intelligent just desperate. And throwing the idea and phrase of "legalized prostitution" into the debate is just a tactic to cause a sidetrack and not part of the election or debate.

In honesty I had to look up your "Moral relativism" to understand just what it was you were trying to say. According to my dictionary "relativism" is defined as: " A theory, especially in ethics or aesthetics, that conceptions of truth and moral values are not absolute but are relative to the persons or groups holding them.

If Gloria is using “moral relativism” to support her point of view than you are guilty of the same offence by using it in support of your point of view.

So... you can have "your" morals and how you feel they are relative to you and your group. We are just tired of having your group forcing your relative morals on the rest of the population who feel that buying alcohol on Sunday in our own town does not mean we have no morals or bad morals. We just want to support the city and its businesses. After all, conceptions of truth and moral values are not absolute!

Citizens of Tonganoxie City: Please get out and vote! SWM23

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Jason Bailey 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

SWM: That's my point! Thanks for making it for me.

Gloria's point of view is relative, meaning there are no absolutes. I hate to be the purveyor of bad news here, but there are absolutes in relation to what is right and what is wrong.

The absolute here is that alcohol is in the top 3 destroyers of marriages, homes, childhoods, and lives. The absolute here is that as one social moire is torn down to make regulations more lax (for the continued depravity of others to engage in hedonism), we slide ever closer to the abyss that is the destruction of our society.

I'm not saying that selling alcohol on Sundays is the end of the world, just that it is one more nail in the coffin of family virtues and one more step towards a completely hedonistic culture.

Apparently my corollary to legalized prostitution has been lost on the citizens of Tongie, or at least those in this thread. If you study how Nevada achieved that pinnacle of carnal delight, it was the same slippery slope we're on now.

Lastly, your statement that "conceptions of truth and moral values are not absolute" is only half accurate. Moral values is relative but truth is absolute. If I told you a gamma ray burst was about to hit and kill off the world, it doesn't matter if you think my "truth" is just my truth and not your truth. It'd still hit and turn out just as I said. Same goes for the value of Pi. Doesn't matter if you think it's 5.32, the fact is it's still 3.14 (trailing on infinitely).

Truth is absolute and that's what I'm fighting for.

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rosebud 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

My dad is a minister of a church in Colorado. "Jason2007" I sure beleive that you are one too. I left home because dad kept trying to tell me that hedonistic is for the weak.

That broke up our family. My Mom left also. Their is not one thing wrong with living a life with pleasure!! I have good morals. Yes, I drink alcohol and I go to the Casinos every now and then. I have sex. All living by pleasure and I still have good family morals. You can have strong family morals and have a life of pleasure too.

The sell of liquor on Sundays will not effect the city's family morals. But trying to push your belief on everyone will destroy families. Ask my Dad!!

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Jason Bailey 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

Rosebud: One issue in a vacuum when evaluated on its own merits will not cause the fall of a culture. When you look at the cumulative effect of the loosening of moires in America over the past 100 yrs, it's very easy to see how "pleasure-centered" we have become.

I have nothing against people enjoying life and having fun but there is right and there is wrong.

You, and others, keep coming back to the individual as the point of focus in this debate and that is not where I am debating at all. This issue is bigger than any one of us -- it is the continued slide of our culture towards chaos. Alcohol sales on Sunday is not going to bring Armageddon, but we keep sliding the bar of what is allowable back farther and farther.

I am a student of history. Every single one of the great cultures of antiquity fell for one of three reasons: 1) Moral decay until everyone was doing whatever they thought was right and the nation had not cohesive force holding it together, 2) Disease and famine, 3) An invader destroyed the nation and its national identity.

We are well on the way to repeating the fallacy committed by the ancient Greeks, Romans, Persians, Babylonians, and Egyptians which is a consistent and insidious decay of the definition "what is right and what is wrong". Do you believe that all of these great societies knew the decisions they were making would ultimately result in their demise as a culture? Absolutely not, they thought it "felt good" so "let's do it". Moral relativism crept in and slowly each society marched to their own self-destruction.

All of this has happened before and it's happening again. My fight is to prevent it, as much as one man can, starting in our little town.

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SWM23 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

jason2007: If you wish to use history to support your view of this debate you are on a slippery slope indeed.

History will show that more war, death and destruction of societies was caused by religious zealots trying to force their religious beliefs and morals on others than most people can even fathom. (Hence our current war in Iraq as a response to Muslem zealots trying to force their beliefs on their own peoples and others of the world thru terror.)

So buying alcohol on Sunday is "absolute" wrong? But other days of the week...well that is ok? What is wrong and what you keep pointing to as the basis of your argument is the not the selling of alcohol but the the inability to control ones own actions. Everyone has free will and churches should use their community powers to educate and assist persons who continue to destroy their own life, their marriages and the childhood of their children by making bad decisions concerning alcohol and other "hedonistic" things. (And lets not even discuss the number of pesons who have traumatized and their childhoods ruined by overly zealous, over religious parents.) Until a each person can do that, with or without help, our societies will continue to suffer from these problems no matter how lax or tight our rules become. And that is an absolute truth.

Prohibiton proved that not selling alcohol did not work. The element of society that makes bad decisions just gained a foothold thru the crime.

Again I state, this debate should not be about the moral values of a community, but about the economics of the issue and the ability of each citizen of the community to have the right to support this community and its businesses. Respectfully, SWM23

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cbmkr 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

I have rode on many a Sunday's with pastors and ministers to buy a 30 pack or some wine to watch a basketball or football game or just to have friends over for dinner. Think of the times you have had a beer on Sundays or a drink with dinner or a cold beer after harvesting and not to mention those cold beers at the little bar on old 40 east of town. The trips out of town with friends and the little unmentionable things that happened.

Get off the push against Sunday Sales and let your local businesses be able to be open like the other local towns.

Question? Why didn't any of you go to the county to protest the allowing of Sunday sales in Leavenworth county, Maybe too busy doing other things.

Here is one thing that needs a lot more attention and affects your congregation directly. Get the mold problem in the Christian church cleaned up so there are no health problems from the black mold in the building.

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Jason Bailey 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

cbmkr: Sorry...don't have a beer on Sundays or a drink with dinner or ever participated in any sort of harvest. Also never visited the little bar on old 40 east of town so can't "think of the times".

I don't attend the Christian Church so can't speak to their mold problem -- but from the inside info that you apparently have, you must attend?

SWM: If economics drives your thought process, then my original corollary to prostitution makes perfect sense to a dollars and cents mind like yours. I used this example to demonstrate moral relativism and the subjective nature of "drawing lines" in what is accepted vs. what is not accepted on the basis of what other towns around us are doing. You've walked into the snare by saying that your entire decision-making is based on economics. If that is true, then let the flood gates open. Nothing is off limits as long as consenting adults are engaging in whatever activity and the local businesses are making money.

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SWM23 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

Jason, Jason, Jason, So narrow minded you are. And so looking for each word in every post that may support your position. I have never said that nothing is off limits. Merely keep in mind that the sale of alcohol is the only business in this community that is discriminated against.
I am stating that it is a matter of the communities citizens to exercise their constitutional and God given right of free choice and be able to keep their support of businesses in the city of Tonganoxie. I'm saying that you are trying to inflame the issue and sidetrack the debate by bringing up prostitution. I'm saying that you keep trying to make this a morals issue without addressing the problem of each citizens ability to control their own actions. I'm saying that you must not think much of the citizens of Tonganoxie ability to be able to make good and moral decisions and you must not think very highly of them. I'm saying you must have an ego problem in trying to belittle others opinions and make yourself appear superior by showing off your supposed intellect. I'm stating that you use moral relativism as the basis of your argument, not just Gloria, myself or others. Recheck the definition of "moral relativism". "A theory, especially in ethics or aesthetics, that conceptions of truth and moral values are not absolute but are relative to the persons or groups holding them." You and your group hold the concept that buying or consuming alcohol on Sunday will contribute to the moral decay of our society thus making it relative to your group. Thus your using moral relativism. My entire decision making is not based on econmics but is based heavily on the freedom of the citizens of this country stated in our Consitution and our Bill of Rights. You state that your a moral person and like Rosebud I suspect you are a minister as well. Stop trying to force your beliefs on the community by attempting to continue the ban on Sunday sales and focus on you flock who exercise their free will by attending church on Sunday.

We who support the ordinance are individuals who share the belief that each person forms this community and each person has the right to vote as they see fit. Each person has the right to consume alcohol or not regardless what day of the week it is. One group attempting to force a community to conform to their beliefs is not a free American society.

If you are for the ordinance please vote yes on Sept 22nd. Polling places are the VFW and Sacred Heart church.

Again, to the citizens of Tonganoxie. Excerise your constitutional rights by getting out to vote. Don't let others make this decision for you.
Respectfully, SWM23

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hemi557 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

I think it's ridiculous that we still have this ordinance.

I am not a religious person, and to me Sunday is just another day of the week. Therefore, I propose that if we don't get rid of this ordinance, it is at least changed to Tuesdays.

That's right, no liquor sales on Tuesdays.

What's so special about Sunday? Is this not the government insinuating to me that Sunday is something special beyond it being the 2nd day of the weekend?

And just for the hell of it, since it's perfectly legal in this country to sell Liquor, I also propose that we ban the sale of ink pens on Thursdays. Since apparently we are interested in limiting the sale of items that are perfectly legal to manufacture, sell and posess... why not?

And for the record, I don't drink.

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Trouble 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

The liquor sell on Sunday has absolutely nothing to do with who think who has good or bad morals.

One of the blogger made a good point to this "Jason2007" He is so set on trying to stop the city with the sell of liquor on Sunday. Where was he and his group when the county passed the liquor ordinance and this was only took place Three week ago? The City and the County is all the same. But not one word from the protesters. Don't get it.

If Jason2007 want to save the world or our small town from the "what did he say" Oh.. the (Hedonistic) Which is Living a Life with Pleasure. "give me a break"

He needs to crawl back into that hole he came from because there is not one person in this town or world that don't live a life with pleasures!

The debate is do the citizens of Tonganoxie want the opportunity to be able to buy Liquor on Sunday and some Holidays in our Town?

I say get out and vote.

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free2besweet 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

Am I missing something? What makes buying liquor on Sunday any more immoral than buying it on any other day of the week? If using alcohol is immoral and the citizens of Tonganoxie have appointed themselves the morality police, why not ban liquor sales all together?

The only valid argument about Sunday liquor sales lies in economics. Either we sell it here or we lose the business to neighboring communities. If you are okay with buying it Monday through Saturday, what difference does Sunday make? Really.

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cbmkr 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

It would have been interesting during the Fox 4 story on Sunday sales in Tonganoxie, to ask councilman Truesdale why he supports liquor by the drink at the local restaurants in Tonganoxie.They are so worried about someone having a beer at home on Sunday they have forgotten about the people that drink and drive home on Sunday and the other 6 days of the week. I will post this again to these 2 churches pushing this ,Try to take care of your own congregation and tell them what to do instead of trying to tell a whole community what to do.

Remember these things can come back to haunt you in the end when you are having fundraisers or are looking for donations people may just not want to give you support anymore i know you have now lost mine..

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Jason Bailey 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

Wow....I haven't had this much fun since digging in over on the LJW forums. You guys are rabid for your beer, aren't you? Or maybe it's the few dollars someone will make in revenues on a Sunday?

I used to say mess with two things in life and you see the worst in people: 1) Their money, 2) their kids. Guess I can add a third to the list: 3) Their beer.

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cbmkr 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

No we are just tired of listening to people wine about Sunday Sales,First we have them then we do not then the church pushes there petition and the councilman who signed the petition speaks against it on Fox 4 ,Lets cut the BS and join the rest of the county and let the people who pass thru and live here have just one more reason to spend there hard earned dollars in there own town,And yes if they want a beer or whatever on Sunday let them spend there money here and the rest that they will spend that day in Tonganoxie.You can all ?iss and moan about Sunday sales in Tonganoxie but you do not have anything to say about all the places in town that you all have eaten at that serve alcohol on Sundays.Does this mean that you very truly hate the idea of Sunday sales of Alcohol and will not take your Family out to Dinner at any of our fine establishments on Sunday and would rather Venture to Another town or is it just that you have been told that its OK to eat dinner next to someone having a few drinks and watch them drive home.

Just seems you are kicking yourself in your own you know what and cannot come to realize what you are doing to your local citizens and business owners.

I think you should put your efforts into something that would help the town ,lets say for instance try checking and seeing how many sex offenders or child abusers you have in town.Maybe what kind of drug activity within town or at our local schools ?? how much of this is going on, you would be amazed.Lets say for a guess maybe there are places in town you can actually gamble didn't know that one did you.

This will be my last post on this subject ,as an area resident of over 41 years you don't have any idea what has gone on and is going on in this Town ,if half the people in town knew they would probably move and i am sure we would be on more than the local news .

The Sunday sale issue is just a little dust in the wind compared to this towns problems let it pass and bring in some revenue.

As for all the New Mexico studies, lets try to use our time to hold the illegal immigrants that break the law in this county and the US, responsible for the crimes they commit,I think you know what i am talking about.

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SWM23 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

Jason2007 Mess with an Americans freedoms and you see the best in them. Hence the debate in these blogs.

Americans in Tonganoxie: Get out and vote yes on September 22nd.

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free2besweet 4 years, 11 months ago on What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

I find it amazing that the so-called Christian's that oppose Sunday liquor sales have no problem jaunting off to a local restaurant with 15 of their fellow brethren after church to have a waitress slave over them then walk out leaving a two dollar tip. Happens every Sunday like clockwork.

Read the entire Sabbath commandment if you're basing your argument on the holiness of the day. (.....neither your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor the stranger that is within thy gates.....) There's a lot more to it than, 'Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy'.

If the argument is that Sunday sales are immoral because it's the Sabbath, then at least stop the hypocrisy and keep it as it was intended. You could start by keeping the Seventh day holy as commanded in the Bible instead of following the dictates of a long ago Pope who changed it to Sunday which is the FIRST day.

Don't believe me? Ask your pastors. They know the truth although they may tell you that's the 'old law' and now Sunday is 'The Lord's Day'. Quote me a scripture that commands you to keep the First Day of the week holy. You can't because it isn't there! To make it easier just look at your calendar and see which day is the seventh day. Sunday is the FIRST day of the week and nowhere does the Bible state that thou shalt keep the first day holy.

If the argument is that it doesn't matter what day you keep holy then I agree with a previous poster. Keep the ordinance in place and change the day to Tuesday. Make up your own holy day. Oh right....you already have.

BTW: I don't drink and I AM a Christian.

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