Comment history

Liquor lands landslide

Suffering from a little bit of sour grapes are we? Your sarcasm is showing. The free flow of ideas and freedom to debate are what make this country great.

Thank you to the citizens of Tonganoxie who got out and exercised their constituional rights of voting!
Now maybe the city coffers will be a little bit enhanced and other business may be more inclined to invest in our area without having to combat other ingrained prejudices by a minority in the community.

Looking forward to seeing my customers on the Sundays and holidays if they so choose!

September 24, 2009 at 11:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

Mess with an Americans freedoms and you see the best in them. Hence the debate in these blogs.

Americans in Tonganoxie: Get out and vote yes on September 22nd.

September 14, 2009 at 6:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Our View: End to Sunday liquor debate long overdue

Must I state it again that the New Mexico study has been discredited by experts. What studies show that selling on Sunday or holidays will increase consumption? Please state your sources. Another step in moral decline? You must not think much of your citizens ability to make good and moral decisions.

Off-premise alcohol sales are the only type of retail sales that are discriminated against in Tonganoxie. But on-premises sales of alcohol by the drink in restaurants and bars on Sunday or any other day of the week are not banned in this town. Why continue to punish your communities retailers who want to keep their businesses open and their employees employed by competing on a fair basis against the surrounding communities business owners.

Some of those who want to defeat the ordinance say the customers can just plan ahead and buy on Saturday or throughout the week. Want to tell the grocery stores customers that they should just plan ahead and buy on Saturday if they want food or snacks for the big football game on Sunday? Out of animal food or products. Just tell pet and livestock owners they should have planned ahead and made their purchases on Saturday. What to take the wife and kids out for dinner on Sunday? I guess you should have planned ahead and gone out during the week. What a stupid basis for debate against the sale of off-premises alcohol sales.

To the ciitizens of Toganoxie. The business owners were not pushing so much for Sunday sales as for holiday sales. An ordinance for sales of alcohol on Memorial Day, Fouth of July and Labor Day was passed by the city last year. However the city was notified by the state that the ordinance was not legal as it conflicted with the state law that sales for Sunday and the holidays must be together on the ordinance. Hence our current situtation.

Again, citizens of Tonganoxie! If you support this ordinance and want to be able to make your alcohol purchases in Tonganoxie and not have to drive out of town, please get to the polls and vote yes on September 22nd.

September 14, 2009 at 1:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

Jason, Jason, Jason,
So narrow minded you are. And so looking for each word in every post that may support your position. I have never said that nothing is off limits. Merely keep in mind that the sale of alcohol is the only business in this community that is discriminated against.
I am stating that it is a matter of the communities citizens to exercise their constitutional and God given right of free choice and be able to keep their support of businesses in the city of Tonganoxie.
I'm saying that you are trying to inflame the issue and sidetrack the debate by bringing up prostitution.
I'm saying that you keep trying to make this a morals issue without addressing the problem of each citizens ability to control their own actions.
I'm saying that you must not think much of the citizens of Tonganoxie ability to be able to make good and moral decisions and you must not think very highly of them.
I'm saying you must have an ego problem in trying to belittle others opinions and make yourself appear superior by showing off your supposed intellect.
I'm stating that you use moral relativism as the basis of your argument, not just Gloria, myself or others. Recheck the definition of "moral relativism". "A theory, especially in ethics or aesthetics, that conceptions of truth and moral values are not absolute but are relative to the persons or groups holding them." You and your group hold the concept that buying or consuming alcohol on Sunday will contribute to the moral decay of our society thus making it relative to your group. Thus your using moral relativism.
My entire decision making is not based on econmics but is based heavily on the freedom of the citizens of this country stated in our Consitution and our Bill of Rights.
You state that your a moral person and like Rosebud I suspect you are a minister as well. Stop trying to force your beliefs on the community by attempting to continue the ban on Sunday sales and focus on you flock who exercise their free will by attending church on Sunday.

We who support the ordinance are individuals who share the belief that each person forms this community and each person has the right to vote as they see fit. Each person has the right to consume alcohol or not regardless what day of the week it is. One group attempting to force a community to conform to their beliefs is not a free American society.

If you are for the ordinance please vote yes on Sept 22nd. Polling places are the VFW and Sacred Heart church.

Again, to the citizens of Tonganoxie. Excerise your constitutional rights by getting out to vote. Don't let others make this decision for you.

September 10, 2009 at 6:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

If you wish to use history to support your view of this debate you are on a slippery slope indeed.

History will show that more war, death and destruction of societies was caused by religious zealots trying to force their religious beliefs and morals on others than most people can even fathom. (Hence our current war in Iraq as a response to Muslem zealots trying to force their beliefs on their own peoples and others of the world thru terror.)

So buying alcohol on Sunday is "absolute" wrong? But other days of the week...well that is ok? What is wrong and what you keep pointing to as the basis of your argument is the not the selling of alcohol but the the inability to control ones own actions. Everyone has free will and churches should use their community powers to educate and assist persons who continue to destroy their own life, their marriages and the childhood of their children by making bad decisions concerning alcohol and other "hedonistic" things. (And lets not even discuss the number of pesons who have traumatized and their childhoods ruined by overly zealous, over religious parents.) Until a each person can do that, with or without help, our societies will continue to suffer from these problems no matter how lax or tight our rules become. And that is an absolute truth.

Prohibiton proved that not selling alcohol did not work. The element of society that makes bad decisions just gained a foothold thru the crime.

Again I state, this debate should not be about the moral values of a community, but about the economics of the issue and the ability of each citizen of the community to have the right to support this community and its businesses.

September 10, 2009 at 9:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

What are you thoughts about the possibility of Sunday retail liquor sales in Tonganoxie?

I think we can logically debate without getting snotty and making snide remarks about misspellings and the "coup de grace" remark. I know I can. Attempting to appear superior by making others feel self-conscious and small about their remarks does not make you appear more intelligent just desperate. And throwing the idea and phrase of "legalized prostitution" into the debate is just a tactic to cause a sidetrack and not part of the election or debate.

In honesty I had to look up your "Moral relativism" to understand just what it was you were trying to say. According to my dictionary "relativism" is defined as: " A theory, especially in ethics or aesthetics, that conceptions of truth and moral values are not absolute but are relative to the persons or groups holding them.

If Gloria is using “moral relativism” to support her point of view than you are guilty of the same offence by using it in support of your point of view.

So... you can have "your" morals and how you feel they are relative to you and your group. We are just tired of having your group forcing your relative morals on the rest of the population who feel that buying alcohol on Sunday in our own town does not mean we have no morals or bad morals. We just want to support the city and its businesses. After all, conceptions of truth and moral values are not absolute!

Citizens of Tonganoxie City: Please get out and vote!

September 8, 2009 at 10:37 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Advance voting available for Sept. 22 election

Get out to vote! Don't let others vote for you. Each vote counts!

September 5, 2009 at 10:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Sunday liquor to be on ballot

Additionally, if the study had been extended past the year 2000, the authors would have found no relationship between Sunday packaged alcohol sales and alcohol-related crashes. If Sunday sales truly caused more accidents, then the relationship would be stable over time."
You may want to think again if you’re using the New Mexico study as a basis for your opposition.

But looking at the National Highway and Safety website I found these statistics from a 2007 study.
In 2007, an estimated 12,998 people were killed in alcohol-impaired driving crashes1 – a decline of 3.7 percent from the 13,491 fatalities in 2006.
The fatality rate, per 100 million vehicle miles of travel (VMT),2 decreased to 0.43 – the lowest on record. Thirty-two States had decreases in the number of alcohol-impaired driving fatalities in 2007, as compared to 2006.

The study can be found out at: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811...
I counted only 13 states that still ban alcohol on Sundays.(but that may not be correct as Ohio & Texas are working on the issue) so I think it a rational assumption is that selling on Sunday does not increase alcohol related crashes. At least no reliable study has proven that as fact.

August 31, 2009 at 3:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Sunday liquor to be on ballot

You seem fond of spouting statistics in New Mexico & I’m not sure where you got your info. I have not been able to find the specific study you keep referring to so I have to assume the following is the study in question. The info comes from a web site related to liquor sales: http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/inde... A lot of info & references are articles. Alcohol Blue Laws Don’t Save Lives. Abolition of the Blue Law in New Mexico that had prevented the sale of packaged alcoholic beverages on Sundays was followed by a drop in both alcohol-related traffic crashes on and in alcohol-related traffic fatalities that day of the week. Consider the facts: The proportion of alcohol-related traffic fatalities on Sundays in New Mexico averaged 60% in the five years before the legalization of package store sales, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. That proportion dropped to 47% in the five years following legalization, a decrease of over one-fifth. The number of alcohol-related Sunday crashes averaged 502 for several years before the law went into effect but dropped to 438 for several years afterward, according to the Division of Government Research at the University of New Mexico. There were 27 alcohol-related traffic fatalities on Sundays before the law went into effect, a number that dropped to 15 by the year 2000, according to the Division of Government Research. Reference: “Blue law” saves lives, study says. UPI, October 6, 2006; National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA); Division of Government Research, University of New Mexico; Sunday Alcohol Sales, Drunk Driving & Underage Drinking.
I also found this; New Mexico Sunday alcohol study debunked by Jason Pye on February 25, 2009. Opponents of Sunday alcohol sales always cite the New Mexico study that supposedly shows a relationship between Sunday sales and fatal automobile accidents. Actually, the New Mexico study has some serious flaws, as pointed out last year by Jason Rudbeck, an economist at the University of Georgia, "The methodology in the New Mexico study was flawed for several reasons. One reason was that the study did not account for an increase in the speed limit during the same period Sunday sales were allowed. Changes occurred in New Mexico that affected all accidents, not only alcohol-related accidents. The study also did not control for officer subjectivity over alcohol involvement, which is common in the literature. It also should be noted that there were an average of only four more fatal accidents on Sundays in the five-year window after the ban repeal, compared to before. An increase so small can hardly be attributable to Sunday sales, and should not be considered sound science in any policy debate.

August 31, 2009 at 3:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Sunday liquor to be on ballot

But kansasjayhawk you miss the point. It is not the matter of an additional day. Sunday sales will not increase the consumption. People who want to purchase on Sunday will. They will just take the purchase out of Tonganoxie thereby denying citizens the ability to keep their tax dollars in their own community. Also keeping them on the road longer thereby increasing the chance of traffic accidents which you seem to be fixated on. (Again I understand why in your case even though your case was not alcohol related. Try to keep that detail in mind and try to stay more objective.)

August 28, 2009 at 12:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal )